Changes between Version 2 and Version 3 of PscMeeting09-10-2009


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Timestamp:
09/10/09 13:08:50 (15 years ago)
Author:
trevorwekel
Comment:

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  • PscMeeting09-10-2009

    v2 v3  
    1919 * Progress on the nightly builds
    2020 * RFC 69 does not has Funding/Resources has "Help Wanted"; can we approve before this section is filled in with a resource?
     21
     22== Minutes ==
     23
     24PSC Members present: Jason, Bruce, Tom, Andy, Kenneth, Trevor.
     25
     26=== The 2.1 Release ===
     27 * The PSC should follow the posted release process http://mapguide.osgeo.org/releaseprocess.html
     28 * Additional Fusion work may still be required for the release.
     29 * Jason will release a MapGuide 2.1 beta based on Fusion trunk ASAP.  The official release date is set for one month after the beta release.
     30 * Jason and Trevor will clean the existing Trac tickets.  1.2 tickets will be blanket closed with a note to reopen if necessary.  Retesting against 2.1 will be requested for all tickets submitted against 2.0.
     31
     32=== Sponsorship ===
     33 * Trevor will send RFC83 out to -internals and -users for review and contact Frank Warmerdam for details on the OSGeo sponsorship program.
     34
     35=== CCLA Forms ===
     36 * Tom will collaborate with Bob to create a Corporate Contributor License Agreement based on the existing Fdo agreement.
     37
     38=== Progress on the nightly builds ===
     39 * Trevor will migrate the existing build VMs to VMware based virtualization.  Once the move is complete, work will continue on integrating the installers into the nightly build process.  A link to the nightly builds will be posted on the !MapGuide website once this has been completed.
     40
     41=== RFC 69 Funding/Resources ===
     42 * Since RFC 69 depends on Fdo RFC 40, work on this RFC will be delaying until the underlying Fdo functionality can be implemented.
     43
     44=== End of meeting ===
     45
     46== Full transcript ==
     47{{{
     48
     49Start of #mapguide buffer: Thu Sep 10 13:45:49 2009
     50* Now talking in #mapguide
     51* Topic is 'MapGuide Open Source | Home: http://mapguide.osgeo.org/ | Bugs:
     52http://trac.osgeo.org/mapguide | See Also: #OSGeo #FDO | Stats: http://www.ohloh.net/proje
     53cts/4656 -and- http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/MapGuide'
     54* Set by jasonbirch on Mon May 28 12:47:53
     55* bdechant (n=chatzill@ussclout1.autodesk.com) has joined #mapguide
     56* jasonbirch (n=jasonbir@osgeo/member/jasonbirch) has joined #mapguide
     57* amorsell (n=chatzill@76.178.132.188) has joined #mapguide
     58* tomf2 (n=tomf2@ussclout1.autodesk.com) has joined #mapguide
     59<jasonbirch> Are we meeting now?  Or did something else happen that i'm oblivious to? :)
     60* jasonbirch is still in vacation catchup mode
     61* amorsell (n=chatzill@76.178.132.188) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
     62<trevorw> Hi Jason, I think we are meeting.  Haris also accepted the meeting invite so
     63  hopefully he will be able to join.
     64* tomf2 (n=tomf2@ussclout1.autodesk.com) Quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
     65* amorsell (n=chatzill@76.178.132.188) has joined #mapguide
     66<trevorw> I don't know about Bob and Paul though.
     67<bdechant> Tom is coming back - had to reboot his laptop
     68<trevorw> I think Bob wanted Tom to chair the meeting from last week since he couldn't
     69  make it.
     70<bdechant> That might still be the plan
     71<trevorw> Hey Bruce, what happened to Tom?  Looks like his connection got turfed.
     72<bdechant> Look up a few comments :)
     73<jasonbirch> While we're here, if you're in Canada and wanting to travel before Dec 17,
     74  book today with WestJet :)   http://www.redflagdeals.com/deals/main.php/alldeals/comment
     75  s/westjetcom_up_to_65_off_fall_travel_ends_september_10/
     76<trevorw> Hmm... maybe I should increase my font size :)
     77<bdechant> :)
     78* kenneth_ (n=chatzill@0x55517824.adsl.cybercity.dk) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection
     79timed out))
     80<trevorw> I just checked the PSC page.  Looks like we need 2/3rds for quorum (6 people) if
     81  we want to vote on anything.
     82<bdechant> Correct
     83<bdechant> I can chair this meeting if no one objects
     84* tomf2 (n=tomf2@132.188.64.150) has joined #mapguide
     85<tomf2> rebooted!
     86<bdechant> Should we get started?
     87<trevorw> Yes.  Let's get started.
     88* kenneth_ (n=chatzill@0x55517824.adsl.cybercity.dk) has joined #mapguide
     89<bdechant> Ok - 1st agenda item is to appoint a meeting secretary
     90<bdechant> Any volunteers?
     91<trevorw> I can if no one has prior experience.  Not sure if I can cut and paste from my
     92  chat client...
     93<bdechant> Most of us have had a turn
     94<bdechant> But thanks for volunteering Trevor :)
     95<bdechant> If you cannot cut/paste let me know and I can email the notes to you
     96<trevorw> Ok.  I'm good.  Looks like I can save the session to a file.
     97<bdechant> Next item on the list - the 2.1 Release
     98<bdechant> So what are we doing and when?
     99<kenneth_> I propose that we describe a formal release process to prevent lags like this
     100  in the future
     101<kenneth_> From what I can see, the OpenLayers team seems to have a very nice process
     102<bdechant> agreed - Kenneth would you like to write that up and post it on our wiki?
     103<kenneth_> Basically, a release manager is appointed at the time a branch is made
     104<tomf2> Is it different than http://mapguide.osgeo.org/releaseprocess.html
     105<kenneth_> No, it looks similar
     106<tomf2> OK, we've had that from the start,  looks like we're just not following it
     107<bdechant> The problem is that we haven't been following it
     108<bdechant> Do we have an official Release Manager?
     109<trevorw> The posted release process we have seems reasonable.  I think part of the
     110  problem is limited resources to back the release process - release manager and
     111  developers to fix critical defects.
     112<trevorw> I believe Jason has been unoffically standing in as release manager this time
     113  around.
     114<tomf2> Yes, resources are a problem, Autodesk used to do all this before, but those
     115  resources are no longer available to us
     116<kenneth_> A thing that seems to be missing is the "pullup" state for tickets, which
     117  developers can set when a ticket has a reasonable solution, and the release manager
     118  should pull it into the release branch
     119<kenneth_> That makes the RM's job much easier
     120<trevorw> So ticket fixes are submitted as patches or to a sandbox?  Then someone has the
     121  merge the fix into the release (candidate) branch?
     122<kenneth_> yes, or to trunk, but only the RM commits to the release branch
     123<tomf2> Is that is what is holding up the 2.1 release right now though?
     124<bdechant> That seems like a lot of work for the RM
     125<kenneth_> ok, I thinks its less work, just look at the list of open issues for the
     126  release, follow up on anything that is missing a pullup tag, and merge the
     127  patches/revisions for those marked for pullup
     128<trevorw> Yes.  It's a ton of work for the RM.  I think developers should be doing
     129  approved submissions to 2.1.  They know what the fix is.  The RM should be giving
     130  approval and figuring out what has to go in.
     131<kenneth_> its not a showstopper for me, just a suggestion, that seems to work really well
     132  for OL
     133<trevorw> So how do we tag these pullup tickets?  I'm not sure the milestone and version
     134  fields in trac are sufficent.
     135<trevorw> Do we need some sort of nomination/approval field?
     136<kenneth_> in the status field, where you have assigned, fixed, reopend, etc.
     137<kenneth_> afaik, there is no nomination/approval in OL trac
     138<kenneth_> the RM decides what fixes are good enough to make it into the release, and what
     139  issues are holding it back
     140<kenneth_> pullup simply states that the ticket is fixed and reviewed, and that the
     141  developers consider it ready for inclusion
     142<tomf2> Sorry, but can we move on.  I have some questions: What are we waiting for for the
     143  next beta? About when are we targeting for 2.1?
     144<jasonbirch> Right now, just waiting for a Fusion that works.
     145<jasonbirch> Where works = something that doesn't entirely piss off everyone.
     146<kenneth_> perhaps the first item on the agenda should be two: How does 2.1 get released
     147  ASAP, and how do we prevent future delays
     148<jasonbirch> From my perspective, the main problem has been a lack of resources to get
     149  showstopper bugs fixed.
     150<jasonbirch> I can rev betas as often as required, but no point if things aren't getting
     151  fixed.
     152<tomf2> How can we get things fixed?  Any ideas?
     153<kenneth_> considering that Fusion has it's own release cycle, shoud we consider not
     154  including fusion (or just 1.1) in the 2.1 release?
     155<trevorw> Is there a list of showstopper issues published somewhere that we can track
     156  against?  That might be what we are missing.
     157<jasonbirch> Perhaps we need tighter management of the Trac issues list.
     158<jasonbirch> Right now priorities are set by the submitter, and not really managed.
     159<jasonbirch> Well, not rigorously, anyway.
     160<trevorw> Exactly.  Trac doesn't tell us what we have to fix.  Maintaining the must fix
     161  list should be the RM's and PSC's job.
     162<jasonbirch> Personally, I think part of the problem is that Trac is basically a
     163  duplication of effort for ADSK
     164<jasonbirch> So we are left with confusion, no resources to manage, etc.
     165<kenneth_> would that make more people angry than further delaying the 2.1 release?
     166* kenneth_ (n=chatzill@0x55517824.adsl.cybercity.dk) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
     167<jasonbirch> Trac _could_tell us that.
     168<jasonbirch> But it's hard for a non-technical manager to go back and reclassify existing
     169  tickets, clean them up, etc.
     170<tomf2> I'm confused, what does Autodesk have to do with resources for fixing Fusion
     171  defects?
     172* kenneth_ (n=chatzill@0x55517824.adsl.cybercity.dk) has joined #mapguide
     173<jasonbirch> Nothing Tom, I'm talking about release process ni general.
     174<tomf2> Oh, OK
     175<jasonbirch> I'd be against releasing MapGuide without Fusion.
     176<jasonbirch> I'd be OK releasing it with current Fusion trunk though.
     177<tomf2> ...but the current Fusion trunk has too many problems?
     178<trevorw> Should we just create a page with the targeted 2.1 defects on the Trac website,
     179  or can we mark the tickets somehow and run a query?
     180<jasonbirch> Especially if Fusion can't devote time to pushing a 2.x release.
     181<jasonbirch> We can mark the tickets, and I can build a custom query if required.
     182<jasonbirch> And then automatically bring these into a Wiki page.
     183<jasonbirch> But really, it's just a matter of setting the milestone.  I think.
     184<trevorw> That would be good.  And if we create a corresponding MapGuide ticket for the
     185  required Fusion tickets and URL link them, it should give us some more clarity.
     186<jasonbirch> That makes sense, and a link back from Fusion asking to update on completion.
     187<bdechant> That would be nice
     188<jasonbirch> I think a cleanup of the MapGuide trac is most important though.
     189<trevorw> Just setting the milestone might lead to too much noise unless someone bumps the
     190  milestone to 2.2 for all the stuff we are not fixing for the release.  That would be
     191  "cleanup".
     192<jasonbirch> I can go and close a lot of old issues, asking for re-open if still WIP /
     193  outstanding.
     194<jasonbirch> Items should not have a milestone at all unless they are accepted and there
     195  are resources assigned.
     196<bdechant> That would be great Jason - as the tickets need a cleaning
     197<trevorw> I can also help Jason with the cleaning.
     198<bdechant> Can we assign an action item to you Jason/Trevor for cleaning up the tickets?
     199<jasonbirch> I'm was just going to blanket close all issues that are reported at version
     200  1.2 (with a note to re-open if still an issue), and ask for retests against 2.1 for
     201  items submitted at 2.0.
     202<jasonbirch> Sure.
     203<bdechant> Thanks
     204<bdechant> That makes sense Jason
     205<jasonbirch> I'm also going to clear the milestone from all tickets, unless they are
     206  accepted by someone.
     207<bdechant> Is there anyway that we could have that field only controllable by the PSC/RM?
     208<jasonbirch> I don't think so, but not sure how granular Trac permissions are.
     209<trevorw> This sounds good.  If we cannot control the milestone field, then maybe we add
     210  an approved for release field?
     211<bdechant> Having both might be confusing
     212<trevorw> Maybe we change milestone to approved for?
     213<trevorw> But milestone could mean "targeted for".  So maybe we need "target for" and
     214  "approved for"?
     215<trevorw> Developers set targeted for, psc sets approved for?
     216<bdechant> That makes more sense
     217<trevorw> Tickets against approved RFCs can set both since approval has already been given.
     218<jasonbirch> I don't think Trac is that flexible...
     219<jasonbirch> At least not through the web admin.
     220<trevorw> This would all be a manual process, assuming we can change "milestone" to
     221  "targeted for".
     222<trevorw> Developers would have to be good and follow the process.
     223<jasonbirch> Can't.  Milestone, Version, etc are built-in concepts in Trac.
     224<jasonbirch> But milestone == approved for.
     225<jasonbirch> Developers are supposed to control acceptance of work.
     226<jasonbirch> Once it's accepted, should be done in trunk.
     227<jasonbirch> If there's a branch, need approval to apply to that.
     228<jasonbirch> Probably just done via mailing list?
     229<trevorw> Do we need a "trunk" milestone then?
     230<trevorw> And two separate tickets logged?
     231<trevorw> Currently, one ticket applies to both streams.
     232<jasonbirch> I think we're mixing concepts.
     233<CIA-28> MapGuide: waltweltonlair * r4215 /trunk/MgDev/Common/Renderers/DWFRenderer.cpp:
     234  (log message trimmed)
     235<CIA-28> MapGuide: Fix #1088: Plot to DWF (eplot) - plot incomplete / features missing
     236<CIA-28> MapGuide: The bug is in DWFRenderer. It generates a W2D resource for each layer
     237  in the
     238<CIA-28> MapGuide: map. There's some optimization code to only generate certain opcodes
     239  when style
     240<CIA-28> MapGuide: information changes from feature to feature. This works fine if you
     241  just have
     242<CIA-28> MapGuide: one layer: the required opcodes are added as part of the first feature
     243  and are
     244<CIA-28> MapGuide: updated as necessary for the layer's remaining features. But if you
     245  have more
     246<jasonbirch> Issues are fixed in trunk.  Once there's a code freeze, issues can only be
     247  pulled up to branch on approval from RM.
     248<trevorw> That sounds right.  How do we get Trac to "track" the approval?
     249<trevorw> Does trunk have no milestone, then PSC sets milestone?
     250<jasonbirch> For work in process, the milestone would be set to next release.  After code
     251  freeze, only RM can set milestone to branched verison?
     252<jasonbirch> (current release)
     253<CIA-28> MapGuide: waltweltonlair * r4216 /trunk/MgDev/Common/Renderers/DWFRenderer.cpp:
     254  Fix comment typo
     255<jasonbirch> Anyway, to move on, how about I post an official Beta using Fusion trunk.
     256<jasonbirch> Give that a month, and then release 2.1 with whatever the current state is?
     257<trevorw> That sounds reasonable to me.
     258<bdechant> Sounds good
     259<jasonbirch> I don't think there are any core show-stoppers in MapGuide, unless you need
     260  to run with fdo connection caching turned on. :)
     261<kenneth_> Fine by me
     262<jasonbirch> I'll try to get that done this weekend.
     263<bdechant> Ok - so can we move on to the next agenda item?
     264<tomf2> +1
     265<jasonbirch> Yes.
     266<tomf2> ...to Jason's proposal
     267<tomf2> ...and to moving on :)
     268<bdechant> Next item - Sponsorship RFC83
     269<tomf2> We're over time
     270<jasonbirch> I may have to leave soon, but I'm OK with vote on RFC83 as it stands.
     271<bdechant> Should we vote on RFC83 and then wrap it up?
     272<tomf2> me too, but was it put out for review?
     273<jasonbirch> Would need to define process for approving funds expenditure, and appoint
     274  someone to track and report to OSGeo
     275<jasonbirch> I think it was circulated informally.
     276<bdechant> Ahh right - not offically reviewed yet
     277<trevorw> It was circulated internally but do we need to get community feedback on it?
     278<tomf2> yes
     279<bdechant> They need to be invovled
     280<jasonbirch> All comms should be via -internals list unless there is a specific reason not
     281  to.
     282<jasonbirch> But, perhaps copy -users on this one too.
     283<trevorw> Ok.  I will put it out for review.  Do we want to include a funding target in
     284  the RFC?  50k, 100k, 200k?
     285<trevorw> I can check with Frank W on the details for the OSGeo sponsorship mechanism
     286<CIA-28> MapGuide: NormOlsen * r4217 /trunk/MgDev/Common/ (11 files in 2 dirs):
     287<CIA-28> MapGuide: This submission can be considered the first complete beta submission
     288  for RFC 76.
     289<CIA-28> MapGuide: It includes all (most all anyway) functionality originally intended by
     290  the RFC,
     291<CIA-28> MapGuide: and most all functionality has been tested, superficially, in a rather
     292  sterile
     293<CIA-28> MapGuide: environment using only the debugger to manually inspect numerical
     294  results.
     295<CIA-28> MapGuide: Surely, once a real application produces graphical results we will have
     296  some
     297<CIA-28> MapGuide: bugs to fix.
     298<bdechant> ok - so RFC83 will be posted for review
     299<jasonbirch> How about we hold off on target until we see what kind of response we get?
     300<bdechant> Do we want to stop here as we are out of time?
     301<bdechant> I would leave target out
     302<trevorw> Ok.  Sounds good.  The RFC should generate some list traffic.  Target is out.
     303<jasonbirch> If someone can take a task to look into CCLA forms?
     304<jasonbirch> There was one developed in Doc format, and it used to be online,but I can't
     305  find it now.
     306<jasonbirch> And there is no way for employers to grant code submission rights as it
     307  stands.
     308<jasonbirch> A bit problematic.
     309<bdechant> Indeed
     310<kenneth_> I posted the CCLA thing, and basically I would like to know how I can get a
     311  CCLA. I have done work that I had to scrap because I could not get one.
     312<kenneth_> And I won't ask my employer to do MapGuide work before I can guarantee that it
     313  will can be legally submitted
     314<kenneth_> I have searched the website, and asked on the mailing list, but no response, so
     315  I assume that it never existed, or has gone missing
     316<tomf2> Never had one for MapGuide
     317<tomf2> I'm wondering what is going on here at Autodesk now, we all have individual CLAs
     318<trevorw> I think we were using the standard OSGeo contributor agreement.  I only see the
     319  proposal for it posted.  http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Individual_Contributor_License_Agree
     320  ment_%28CLA%29
     321<trevorw> Google... http://fdo.osgeo.org/files/Individual%20Contributor%20Agreement%20-%20
     322  FDO.pdf
     323<trevorw> Now where's the MapGuide one?
     324<tomf2> kenneth_ are you saying that the individual CLA is not good enough legally, or is
     325  it something that your employer requires?  Either way, we should get the CCLA out; I'll
     326  see if Bob can help me (or I can help him) with that.
     327<jasonbirch> We can steal FDO's
     328<jasonbirch> And their process for submitting, etc.
     329<kenneth_> It states that the individual has employers consent. That is a bit odd because
     330  I signed mine with regards to the work I had done personally
     331<tomf2> jasonbirch: what process for submitting?
     332<kenneth_> tomf2 I would like some signed document from my employer granting me rights to
     333  commit work that belongs to him
     334<kenneth_> I expected that that was what a CCLA is
     335<kenneth_> that the company accepts that employees submit code to the project
     336<jasonbirch> Yes, that was the intent.
     337<tomf2> Here's the FDO one: http://fdo.osgeo.org/files/Corporate%20Contributor%20Agreement
     338  %20-%20FDO.pdf
     339<trevorw> I found the one I signed - stock OSGeo agreement - http://mapguide.osgeo.org/fil
     340  es/Individual%20Contributor%20Agreement.pdf
     341<trevorw> Bob would probably know for certain but I don't know if the Corporate agreement
     342  was every approved.
     343<tomf2> I believe it is more "the project will accept code from the designated employees
     344  of that company"
     345<kenneth_> The FDO one looks just right, can Tom or Bob post one for MG?
     346<trevorw> I think the stock OSGeo agreement and the Fdo agreement are basically the same. 
     347  Just replace OSGeo with Fdo
     348<tomf2> I have to go
     349<trevorw> Just to confuse the issue even more, Fdo has posted a corporate contributor
     350  agreement as well http://fdo.osgeo.org/files/Corporate%20Contributor%20Agreement%20-%20F
     351  DO.pdf
     352* kenneth_ (n=chatzill@0x55517824.adsl.cybercity.dk) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
     353<trevorw> Ok.  Are we done for the day?
     354* kenneth_ (n=chatzill@0x55517824.adsl.cybercity.dk) has joined #mapguide
     355<tomf2> trevorw see my third from last message
     356<jasonbirch> I have to go :)
     357<trevorw> Oops.  Sorry Tom.  Didn't catch the corporate.
     358<jasonbirch> Basically, CCLA was required, but also needed individuals.
     359<jasonbirch> Gotta find that doc now...
     360<jasonbirch> http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/fdo-internals/2007-November/001589.html
     361<jasonbirch> Not sure if that's all...
     362<trevorw> Ok.  I have three action items listed for the meeting:
     363<trevorw> 1. Jason/Trevor Clean trac tickets
     364<trevorw> 2. Jason release beta based on fusion trunk follow by 2.1 release 1 month later
     365<trevorw> 3. Trevor post RFC 83 for review to -internals and -users.  Talk to Frank W
     366  about OSGeo sponsorship mechanism
     367<jasonbirch> Could Tom / Bob look into porting FDO CCLA to MapGuide?
     368<trevorw> Both corporate and individual variants?
     369<jasonbirch> We already have an individual CLA I think.
     370<tomf2> And I've already said that I would do that? Trevor do you have a filter on my
     371  messages! :)
     372<trevorw> Ok.  Just corporate then.  The individual agreement does not mention Mapguide
     373  but that's probably ok.
     374<jasonbirch> Oh, me too :)
     375<kenneth_> The last item on the list (RFC #69) should probably be delayed, as it currently
     376  depends on FDO RFC #40, unless it should be answered as a prototype question
     377<kenneth_> trevorw: what is the status for the nightly builds?
     378<trevorw> For the builds, I would like to migrate the Xen VMs to VMware.  I am planning on
     379  moving to a colocation site to do official VMware hosting and would like to use the same
     380  infrastructure.  This would also enable me to host a code collaboration tool.  Didn't
     381  want to do that one out of my basement.
     382<bdechant> Sorry had to step out for a meeting
     383<bdechant> Back now
     384<trevorw> The builds machines are still there, but the installers have not been integrated
     385  into the build process yet.
     386<kenneth_> Ok, so what would be the plan for getting a link to a nightly build posted on
     387  the osgeo websited?
     388<kenneth_> first move to VMWare, then move hosting systems, then integrate installers,
     389  then post link?
     390<trevorw> Yep.  That's about right.  For the beta, Jason has been doing the builds himself.
     391<trevorw> Do we want a builds link up sooner than that?  The colocation will probably not
     392  happy until the end of the month.
     393<trevorw> I could move the VMs over and continue hosting out of my basement temporarily. 
     394  Download bandwidth would be slow though.
     395<kenneth_> The beta is more important to me than the nightly builds, I just wanted some
     396  kind of assurance that the builds are progressing
     397<trevorw> Having nightly builds available during the beta period might be useful.
     398<trevorw> Yes.  The builds are progressing.  I have been busy with "groundwork" the last
     399  few weeks - colocation negotiations and VMware certification.
     400<kenneth_> super
     401<kenneth_> does that conclude the psc meeting?
     402<bdechant> thanks
     403<trevorw> Yep.  I will add another action item for the builds.  Thanks everyone
     404<bdechant> I think that is it
     405<bdechant> Thanks all
     406End of #mapguide buffer    Thu Sep 10 13:45:49 2009
     407
     408}}}